Pamela Dow – Prisons

pamela-dow-5Pamela Dow is Director of Strategy and Development at Wandsworth Reform Prison. That means she decides what the prison will do with its money and prisoners. Before that job, she was Director of Strategy for the Ministry of Justice. That meant she influenced what the government did with prisons and funding for prisons. 

Pamela has been reading the discussion on the blog and has responded to some of your comments!

Dear Burnet News Club members, 

Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to your blog.

I have spent a long time thinking about your questions as they were important and interesting. I wanted to make sure I answered them as fully as possible. This has been a difficult few months in the UK's prisons, and you will have seen a lot of news reports about our criminal justice system. While I am sad about the circumstances that have led to this, I am glad that people are talking about crime and punishment. I think it is everyone’s duty to care about justice, and care about whether our prisons are safe, decent and effective. Most people have a view about teachers and schools, and doctors and hospitals. Our courts and prisons and the people who work in them should be no different. 

Thank YOU for caring, and taking the time to think about all the complicated issues involved.  

Faringdon Community College had a question about whether electronic tags are more effective than a prison sentence, which is very topical. You are absolutely right that an ankle GPS tracker worn while living and working in the community is cheaper than accommodation in a jail community. For some people who commit crimes it is definitely the right solution. However, it's worth going right back to the reasons prisons exist at all, and this might help answer Mission Grove Primary School's excellent question. 

We justify prisons in four ways:

1

The first is as a deterrence. That means prisons prevent people committing crime because they know their freedom could be taken away, and has been taken away from some people. It's tricky to prove how effective prison as a deterrent is because you can't count crimes that haven't been committed! But this seems to make sense.

Do you think an electronic tag has the same result? In some cases they are effective because people are ashamed to wear them, or they can stop people from going to places where they commit crime. For example, an alcoholic who is only violent or only steals things when drunk could be restricted from going to pubs by their tag. Can you think of some crimes and criminals where a tag wouldn't be a deterrent though?

2

Secondly, they keep us safe by removing violent people from society. This seems like the most obvious reason for prison. The most important role of the Government is to protect us from violence or physical harm. GPS trackers wouldn’t be suitable for punishing terrorists or serial murderers, for example. Fortunately there are very few of them. 

3

The third reason for prison is 'retribution' or punishment. Victims of crime and their families want to see that justice is done, and the people who have caused them harm suffer in some way. It is often said that people are sent to prison AS a punishment, not FOR punishment, and this is a belief on which our prison policy is based. Other countries have a different approach, and prisons in these countries are terrifying and foul places. 

Some victims of crime would be content to see the person who had hurt them serve a community sentence with an electronic tag, but others would not. Try to think about being a victim of different types of crimes yourself, and whether you would feel safe or fairly treated by different types of sentences. 

4

The final justification for prison is the most important in my view: rehabilitation. This is I think the most relevant to your questions. Most people who commit crimes have in some way broken away from any kind of positive, supportive, community. Often the best way to help them back in is to give them the chance to find three things: something to do, somewhere to live, and people to like and love.

For some people, only prison can do that, because their lives have become so chaotic. For others they can find those three crucial things while remaining outside prison, wearing a tag to show they have committed a crime and are being given a second chance. The difficult challenge for all of us is to work out how we can make sure rehabilitation is effective in the community. While the GPS tracker may be cheaper than prison, the many human beings needed to support the person wearing it aren’t cheap: the prisoner needs education and new skills to find a legal way to make money, they need a place to live and a job, they may need help to stop drinking too much or using drugs, or to be good dads or mums. 

 I hope that is a very thorough answer to your much shorter question. In summary, I agree that electronic monitoring can be effective, but only for some people and it is not necessarily cheaper if we want to help rehabilitate people properly! 

Graveney School members made an important point about understanding why prisons don't prevent over 40% of people who go to them from committing more crimes when they get out. They also asked whether the money the Government has just announced should go to prisons or other public services. It's worth having a look at the amount of money that does get spent on prisons compared to other things like hospitals or schools or the army. You might still think that money is 'flooding' in to prisons, or you might be surprised at the pie chart - I won't make any comment other than provide the link! https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/budget-2016-documents/budget-2016

It is definitely the case that money spent on preventing crime is better than money spent on prison. For example, a lot of people in prison can't read or write, or grew up in care homes. That's why you'll see the pie chart section for education and social services is large, because the government recognises the need to help at an earlier stage. 

Burnet News Club members at Quay Academy asked a brilliant and simple question - why do people commit crime when they know prison is so awful?! I am afraid I don't have an easy answer to that question though some of what I have said above may help. One thing it is worth thinking about is how we make choices. I hope you all go on to study the idea of 'agency' as it has been written about for thousands of years by philosophers and is probably the most important and constantly relevant question to our species and civilisation.

Is an 18 year old who steals to buy drugs making the same conscious choice as the 35 year old who steals to pay off debts?

Are people who get in a fight while drunk making the same choices as people who plan to hurt someone they bear a grudge against?

Should our justice system make a distinction?

Those of you who are interested in robots and artificial intelligence may enjoy taking this question to another level - can a robot be blamed for a crime? Would a very advanced robot make calculated choices about the chance of being caught and the awfulness of prison?

I don't have the answers, but these issues are all worth thinking and talking about.

Finally, I was very pleased to read your thoughts on library books. You covered many of the important issues about why prison libraries are so important and also what risks we should be aware of, e.g. violent stories. Crampton Primary School pupils are right to say that education is the most important part of rehabilitation within a prison. Learning to read and reading to learn unlocks minds and gives people the chance to be the authors of their own life stories. 

Thank you again for inviting me to be a guest blogger, and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Good luck and keep on thinking, reading, learning and debating! 

Pamela Dow,

Strategy and Development Director,

Wandsworth Reform Prison

16 Comments

  1. St Augustine’s CE Primary School St Augustine’s CE Primary School

    I think some people should be punished and some shouldn’t.The reason for that is because according to research by Prison Reform Trust 10% of men and 30% of women have had a previous psychiatrist to hospital before they go to prison.In addition 40% of women and 23% of male prisoners were suffering from anxiety.On the other hand, some people have committed crime on purpose and should be punished.
    From:Ft legend

  2. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    I agree with what you have put on burnet news club on pemela dow-prisons because i wouldnt change a word of what you have already said i agree with it all. As well as that i understand on what you have suggested and i like every word you have said well done.
    Yellow Jaffa Cakes

  3. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    I think that we should keep prisons for worse crimes that tags can not fixs like murder.

  4. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    Hi I like this comment on this post what you have put p

  5. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    I agree with you we should keep prisons because it teaches criminals to not do something wrong again that may get them into prison because prison is like torture and people who cermet crimes should be in prison.

  6. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    I agree with Pamela’s comment, tracer’s would work if they were used in the right situation, but this does not mean the prison system should use them in every issue that police come across. Like a person who as committed murder or like Pamela said terrorists because it wouldn’t stop those sort of criminal because even if you get there in time they can still get away . To sum up I totally agree with Pamela’s comment.

    By magical horse rider.

  7. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    Hi,
    I like your comment and I think it’s very good also interesting it is a hard decisive question I’m struggling to answer it I’m so confused its good I think it’s amazing but I am so confused
    crazycommenter

    • Hi Crazycommenter!

      Thanks for your comment, I’m glad you enjoyed Pamela’s post. Which question are you confused about? Maybe I can help.

  8. King Edward VI Academy King Edward VI Academy

    Hi I like this comment on this post what you have put in this posting blog and they have good things you have put on and on the pemela dow-prison because I would not change a word of what you have said already. But you have done well on what you have put and I have understand what you have suggested and I like all the words you have said.
    by Friendly Candyfloss

  9. Elaine Primary Academy Elaine Primary Academy

    Has being the Director of Strategy and Development at Wandsworth Prison changed your views on how criminals should be treated in any way?

    KaraokeKat

  10. BNC Expert Contributor

    Thank you Elaine Primary Academy, this is an excellent question and shows great empathy – thank you for asking! I think everyone is affected by the jobs they do. I have found that the more I see of the way things work in the world, the more I understand how complicated it is to make positive changes. I think the true answer is that being at Wandsworth hasn’t changed my views on how prisoners should be treated, but it has given me a much better understanding of why they are treated the way they are. It has made me appreciate properly what am amazing job prisoner officers do. I have yet to meet an officer who doesn’t want to help keep society safe, make sure justice is done, and at the same time do everything they can to help prisoners have a second chance to live better lives. The Governor of Wandsworth, Ian Bickers, wakes up every morning with a huge and direct responsibility for the safety of thousands of people, which is something I definitely appreciate more now. If anyone would like a hard but very fulfilling and important job, and make a big difference, they should think about becoming a prison officer.

    Pamela Dow

  11. St Augustines C of E Primary School St Augustines C of E Primary School

    I agree

    QueenB

  12. Elaine Primary Academy Elaine Primary Academy

    Do you think that people can change? (To Pamela Dow)

    -Priceless Bunnie

  13. Elaine Primary Academy Elaine Primary Academy

    Is it a struggle being at the level you are? And what do you believe is more important, the safety of people or the safety of criminals?

    KaraokeKat